returning runner - diabetic (53 yrs on Metformin)

[Anne Marshall]

Where to start? Well I'm training up to run London Marathon for Diabetes UK
and after reading a book called "Running Well" went to my GP to get the
"ok". He gave the "ok" with very few questions asked so I'm not that happy
really (he didn't even know what distance a marathon was!!!and he was
supposedly the resident diabetes expert in the practice).

He said I may actually need <more> metformin (currently 500 mg x 3 times
daily) whilst training or may need to go onto insulin - why? Currenly I'm
running gentle (6 mph) training runs on undulating ground (I live in a very
hilly city with lots of hills around) of between 2 to 6 miles three to four
times a week and building up the distance gradually over the weeks (this
doesn't really describe in detail what I'm doing with heart monitor, times
and distances - basically keeping within a comfort zone which is expanding
as the weeks go by).

Am I in more danger of developing lactic acidosis on the metformin because
I'm running now (and you can get a build-up of lactic acid in muscles after
extreme exercise anyway although to counter this I make sure I don't run at
sprint pace or too breathless to speak).

Anyone got any experience of running with diabetes?

Thanks

I've lost some weight (was 11 st now 9 st 12 oz) which would normally make
by blood sugars lower, however I seem to have increased from a norm of
around 5-6 before meals to 6.8 ish most times unless I completely skip
breakfast (and that metformin) and have just 2 meals a day.

[Nicky]

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 14:59:38 -0000, "Anne Marshall"

Post by Anne Marshall
Anyone got any experience of running with diabetes?

Anne, I suggest you post this to alt.support.diabetes, where there are
a few long-distance runners.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25

[Roger]

Post by Anne Marshall
Anyone got any experience of running with diabetes?
Thanks

I have run FLM twice and two other marathons. The reason I ran the
first one (FLM 2000) was I used to work with a lass who had been
diabetic since the age of 9 and had recently run the London Marathon.

I thought ' crikey if she can do it - what's stoppoing me?'

So, well done for signing up and take heart....you are not the first
diabetic to run the race.

this forum is awash with experienced runners - but you might also want
to go and take a peek at the Runners World FLM forum
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/forum.asp?dt=4&v=6&sp=

if i can scrounge any good advice will post.

best of luck

Roger

[Anne Marshall]

Thanks! I've just got all the FLM info today and I'll be grateful for any
advice you may come across. I've tied up the loose ends and can now
concentrate on the running, i.e. relax and enjoy it!

Post by Roger

Post by Anne Marshall
Anyone got any experience of running with diabetes?
Thanks

I have run FLM twice and two other marathons. The reason I ran the
first one (FLM 2000) was I used to work with a lass who had been
diabetic since the age of 9 and had recently run the London Marathon.
I thought ' crikey if she can do it - what's stoppoing me?'
So, well done for signing up and take heart....you are not the first
diabetic to run the race.
this forum is awash with experienced runners - but you might also want
to go and take a peek at the Runners World FLM forum
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/forum.asp?dt=4&v=6&sp=
if i can scrounge any good advice will post.
best of luck
Roger
--
\\
<|:-) Helga? I'm off to liberate The Holy Land - should be back by Beltane
//

[Nicky]

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:26:03 -0000, "Anne Marshall"

Post by Anne Marshall
Thanks! I've just got all the FLM info today and I'll be grateful for any
advice you may come across. I've tied up the loose ends and can now
concentrate on the running, i.e. relax and enjoy it!

Anne, have you come across these guys? - They're doctors, not
diabetic, but running on a low-carb diet.
http://ramblingoutsidethebox.blogspot.com/

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25

[ZB]

Post by Anne Marshall
Where to start? Well I'm training up to run London Marathon for Diabetes
UK and after reading a book called "Running Well" went to my GP to get the
"ok". He gave the "ok" with very few questions asked so I'm not that
happy really (he didn't even know what distance a marathon was!!!and he
was supposedly the resident diabetes expert in the practice).
He said I may actually need <more> metformin (currently 500 mg x 3 times
daily) whilst training or may need to go onto insulin - why? Currenly I'm
running gentle (6 mph) training runs on undulating ground (I live in a
very hilly city with lots of hills around) of between 2 to 6 miles three
to four times a week and building up the distance gradually over the weeks
(this doesn't really describe in detail what I'm doing with heart monitor,
times and distances - basically keeping within a comfort zone which is
expanding as the weeks go by).
Am I in more danger of developing lactic acidosis on the metformin because
I'm running now (and you can get a build-up of lactic acid in muscles
after extreme exercise anyway although to counter this I make sure I don't
run at sprint pace or too breathless to speak).
Anyone got any experience of running with diabetes?
Thanks
I've lost some weight (was 11 st now 9 st 12 oz) which would normally make
by blood sugars lower, however I seem to have increased from a norm of
around 5-6 before meals to 6.8 ish most times unless I completely skip
breakfast (and that metformin) and have just 2 meals a day.

Have you ever read a book called Reversing Diabetes? It's superb and
provides excellent health advice for non-Diabetics too.

I have a nephew and niece with diabetes, my dad also suffered from it and
have been doing a little reading on the subject.

As I am sure you know, blood glucose levels are hard to predict and control.
There was a case of one kid who played a lot of ice hockey. During practise
his blood sugar would go down but during a game it would go up because of
the adrenalin.

From what I have seen, exercise is extremely beneficial to control of your
blood glucose and could lead to you requiring less drugs rather than more in
the long term.

[Frederick Williams]

Post by Anne Marshall
Where to start? Well I'm training up to run London Marathon for Diabetes UK
and after reading a book called "Running Well" went to my GP to get the
"ok". He gave the "ok" with very few questions asked so I'm not that happy
really (he didn't even know what distance a marathon was!!!and he was
supposedly the resident diabetes expert in the practice).

Why should a diabetes expert know about marathons? (why should judges
know about pop groups? Etc.)

I'm not sure what running a marathon _for_ Diabetes UK means, but you
might seek advice from them.

Post by Anne Marshall
He said I may actually need <more> metformin (currently 500 mg x 3 times
daily) whilst training or may need to go onto insulin - why?

You should have asked him at the time.

Post by Anne Marshall
Currenly I'm
running gentle (6 mph) training runs on undulating ground (I live in a very
hilly city with lots of hills around) of between 2 to 6 miles three to four
times a week and building up the distance gradually over the weeks (this
doesn't really describe in detail what I'm doing with heart monitor, times
and distances - basically keeping within a comfort zone which is expanding
as the weeks go by).
Am I in more danger of developing lactic acidosis on the metformin because
I'm running now (and you can get a build-up of lactic acid in muscles after
extreme exercise anyway although to counter this I make sure I don't run at
sprint pace or too breathless to speak).
Anyone got any experience of running with diabetes?
Thanks
I've lost some weight (was 11 st now 9 st 12 oz) which would normally make
by blood sugars lower, however I seem to have increased from a norm of
around 5-6 before meals to 6.8 ish most times unless I completely skip
breakfast (and that metformin) and have just 2 meals a day.

[Anne Marshall]

Thanks Fred - actually the doc was the resident GP who was the "specialist
in diabetes" who I hadn't seen since becoming a patient at the practice -
diabetes care being "managed" by an overweight healthcare assistant - anyway
got a new GP now.

I've got a "golden bond" place running the London Marathon to raise money
for Diabetes UK. And since I've been put onto to some excellent advice from
diabetes/diet/sports medicine expert who is a contact of theirs fairly
locally.

Diabetes care in Bradford is undergoing yet another change and as someone
who was "diagnosed" as insulin dependent at 17, diet controlled at 25 (after
hypos that left me with ?? "brain damage" at age 20), now on metformiin as a
"type 2 diabetic" - I have a degree in pharmacology (at age 26) - however
the GP I saw did not have english as his first language and communication
was fraught with difficulties anyway, the marathon issue being a minute part
of the problem ...... ).

Just seen my new GP (who is a runner!) - good advice, plus a referral for
physio for iliotibial band syndrome - woahh with the training.

Communication is 99% of the solution/problem - depending on how you look at
it with GPs - always have an eye on the clock.

Post by Frederick Williams

Post by Anne Marshall
Where to start? Well I'm training up to run London Marathon for Diabetes UK
and after reading a book called "Running Well" went to my GP to get the
"ok". He gave the "ok" with very few questions asked so I'm not that happy
really (he didn't even know what distance a marathon was!!!and he was
supposedly the resident diabetes expert in the practice).

Why should a diabetes expert know about marathons? (why should judges
know about pop groups? Etc.)
I'm not sure what running a marathon _for_ Diabetes UK means, but you
might seek advice from them.

Post by Anne Marshall
He said I may actually need <more> metformin (currently 500 mg x 3 times
daily) whilst training or may need to go onto insulin - why?

You should have asked him at the time.

Post by Anne Marshall
Currenly I'm
running gentle (6 mph) training runs on undulating ground (I live in a very
hilly city with lots of hills around) of between 2 to 6 miles three to four
times a week and building up the distance gradually over the weeks (this
doesn't really describe in detail what I'm doing with heart monitor, times
and distances - basically keeping within a comfort zone which is expanding
as the weeks go by).
Am I in more danger of developing lactic acidosis on the metformin because
I'm running now (and you can get a build-up of lactic acid in muscles after
extreme exercise anyway although to counter this I make sure I don't run at
sprint pace or too breathless to speak).
Anyone got any experience of running with diabetes?
Thanks
I've lost some weight (was 11 st now 9 st 12 oz) which would normally make
by blood sugars lower, however I seem to have increased from a norm of
around 5-6 before meals to 6.8 ish most times unless I completely skip
breakfast (and that metformin) and have just 2 meals a day.

--
But you see, I can believe a thing without understanding it.
It's all a matter of training.
--Lord Peter Wimsey in Dorothy L Sayers' _Have His Carcase_

[Trinkwasser]

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:12:36 -0000, "Anne Marshall"

Post by Anne Marshall
I've got a "golden bond" place running the London Marathon to raise money
for Diabetes UK. And since I've been put onto to some excellent advice from
diabetes/diet/sports medicine expert who is a contact of theirs fairly
locally.

I wouldn't fart in their general direction let alone give them money
until they can come up with dietary advice that doesn't make us worse.

However, whatever floats your boat <G>

[Anne Marshall]

Post by Trinkwasser
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:12:36 -0000, "Anne Marshall"

Post by Anne Marshall
I've got a "golden bond" place running the London Marathon to raise money
for Diabetes UK. And since I've been put onto to some excellent advice from
diabetes/diet/sports medicine expert who is a contact of theirs fairly
locally.

I wouldn't fart in their general direction let alone give them money
until they can come up with dietary advice that doesn't make us worse.
However, whatever floats your boat <G>

If you're talking about the crap recipes and advice they give in the
Diabetes UK mag I think I'd agree with you. I'm of an independent streak
myself and don't really fit in any of the convenient boxes that they use for
"type" of diabetic (since age 17 when I <wasn't> insulin dependent).
However we're just starting up a new group in Bradford and really just being
able to meet with other diabetics and compare notes does have it's uses.

So far so good with the training - my attitude is "if it works use it" and
I'm still experimenting with diet to make sure I'm not "running on empty".
Bigger prob at moment is a hamstring injury (never had one before).

[Nicky]

On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:02:11 -0000, "Anne Marshall"

Post by Anne Marshall
However we're just starting up a new group in Bradford and really just being
able to meet with other diabetics and compare notes does have it's uses.

Ah, if you're raising money for a local branch of DUK, that's very
cool - the branch can insist that money raised goes into the DUK
research fund, not into their general one for dispensing crap dietary
advice. That's what we do here in east Suffolk - not a penny goes into
the general fund, but we pick a couple of interesting research
projects a year to sponsor.

Nicky.
T2 dx 05/04 + underactive thyroid
D&E, 100ug thyroxine
Last A1c 5.4% BMI 25

[Trinkwasser]

Post by Nicky
On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:02:11 -0000, "Anne Marshall"

Post by Anne Marshall
However we're just starting up a new group in Bradford and really just being
able to meet with other diabetics and compare notes does have it's uses.

Ah, if you're raising money for a local branch of DUK, that's very
cool - the branch can insist that money raised goes into the DUK
research fund, not into their general one for dispensing crap dietary
advice. That's what we do here in east Suffolk - not a penny goes into
the general fund, but we pick a couple of interesting research
projects a year to sponsor.

That sounds useful. Would that we could do the same with our taxes and
NHS contributions

[ZB]

Post by Trinkwasser
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:12:36 -0000, "Anne Marshall"

Post by Anne Marshall
I've got a "golden bond" place running the London Marathon to raise money
for Diabetes UK. And since I've been put onto to some excellent advice from
diabetes/diet/sports medicine expert who is a contact of theirs fairly
locally.

I wouldn't fart in their general direction let alone give them money
until they can come up with dietary advice that doesn't make us worse.
However, whatever floats your boat <G>

My family have noticed a huge impact on their A1c scores by following a
reduced carb diet (not low carb like Atkins). There seems to be a lot of
research on the positives of reducing carb and replacing it with unsaturated
fats.

[Trinkwasser]

Post by ZB

Post by Trinkwasser
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:12:36 -0000, "Anne Marshall"

Post by Anne Marshall
I've got a "golden bond" place running the London Marathon to raise money
for Diabetes UK. And since I've been put onto to some excellent advice from
diabetes/diet/sports medicine expert who is a contact of theirs fairly
locally.

I wouldn't fart in their general direction let alone give them money
until they can come up with dietary advice that doesn't make us worse.
However, whatever floats your boat <G>

My family have noticed a huge impact on their A1c scores by following a
reduced carb diet (not low carb like Atkins). There seems to be a lot of
research on the positives of reducing carb and replacing it with unsaturated
fats.

Indeed, and even the ADA have recently revised their advice slightly
in that direction but DUK haven't wavered.

This is what I did

http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

it enabled me to discover how many carbs I needed and didn't need at
different times of day and in different circumstances - which totalled
something like 1/4 to 1/3 of what I was told to eat by the dietician -
and it also showed me specifics, like anything containing wheat is
about as bad for me as pure sugar.

That overreaction to wheat is common to my athlete cousin, but she can
eat things like rice cakes which I can't.

I mostly ate a lot of meat and vegetables anyway, especially these
guys

http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm

and now eat far more fish since moving nearer to the coast.

The fat issue can be complicated though, without the excess carbs and
ridiculously high trigs I seem to be able to convert saturated fat
into HDL rather than LDL, or so my full lipid panels tell me. But not
everyone can do that (and I'm not supposed to get lipid panels anyway)

Certainly in the absence of excess carbs they are not as toxic as we
are told they are, and monounsaturates and especially Omega 3
polyunsaturates are a good plan. I find a high protein breakfast helps
level my BG out through the day, though how you'd balance the
macronutrients out with marathon levels of exertion really requires
the input of an expert, or someone who has done it successfully, or
both.